Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Birds

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Video Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Birds

Southern boobook

its FAC is moving slowly....any interested revewers most welcome Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 08:50, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

Maps Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Birds

Draft:Pecking

I have started Draft:Pecking. We have no article on this behavior! bd2412 T 01:30, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

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Define IUCN initialism in bird articles?

MOS:ACRO recommends that initialisms should be defined on their first use on a page, for example "International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN)". However the style guide also lists "exceptions" for well-known and common initialisms, such as UNESCO, NASA, PC, HDMI, and sonar. Is IUCN common enough to be considered a MOS:ACRO exception within WikiProject Birds articles? Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 16:07, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

I do not believe that the acronym is sufficiently well known to be used without a definition. It is better to use the full name and avoid making the reader click on the link. As with any abbreviation, if the name is only mentioned once in the lead and once in the body of the article there is no need to use the abbreviation; it is only when the name is mentioned on multiple occasions is it worth defining. - Aa77zz (talk) 16:33, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

On that note it's almost always used at least three times in quality birds articles: once in the lede, once in the body, and once always initialed in the infobox. It should then at least be defined once, but is it necessary to define it in the lede and the body? Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 16:41, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

I don't think so; I've always just defined it in the lead. This is because people who want to know what the abbreviation means will either follow the link from IUCN or will look it up (either in the article with the abbreviation or on a search engine) or they will be knowledgable enough to know what it means (as most people reading the whole article are probably looking for detail, and not quick information). RileyBugz^??_???? 19:11, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

Any uncommon initialism such as IUCN should be defined at the point of its first use within the article (but not infobox). I have just come across an article where this was removed and have now restored the "(IUCN)". Loopy30 (talk) 14:04, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

This is all pretty much what I thought. I came across user Ettrig removing the initialism from a featured article I had worked on, and found that they were doing this on a big list of articles. I asked them to revert but it seems they've chosen to ignore me. I'm about to proceed with rolling back their removals, per this discussion. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 00:25, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

The intro is to be concise, that is it is not to contain more words than necessary. It cannot be seen as necessary to mention the origin of the vulnerability evaluation twice. The name of the origin is not even information about the species. To repeat, knowing the name of IUCN is not even neede to understand the information that is given about the species. I have gone through the FAs for non-extinct bird species to see how this has been handled: nothing on conservation status - 34; no origin for info on cons. status - 34; only acronym - 17; only full name - 15; both name and acronym - 34. (Not 100% exact counting, of course.) So dual naming is common but not used in an absolute majority, and definitely not as a rule. It is also the most extreme variant. I have seen the argument that explanation of the acronym is needed for the use in the taxobox. I think this argument is false. The taxobox is never designed so that it needs support from the article text. This can also be seen in the fact that a large majority of the FAs for birds does not provide this support. In addition, the design of the taxobox, putting "IUCN" in parentheses, shows that the full name is not seen as important. The full name is too much in my view. Full name AND acronym is definitely too much. --Ettrig (talk) 19:52, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

I don't disagree, necessarily, except that it is absolutely necessary to define the initialism if it's going to be used in the infobox, as it seems we've established that IUCN is not a well-known-enough initialism to be an exception to MOS:ACRO. But this shouldn't be a problem: infoboxes are supposed to reflect information in the article prose, so every article which uses IUCN information in the infobox should be basing it on referenced information in the body (not lede) of the article. If the body sections contain wording such as "According to the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN)" then my feeling is this satisfies ACRO as far as defining the initialism, and so it's not necessary to repeat it in the lede if it's not important information for a summary. And whether or not it's important probably depends on the status: I imagine it's crucial information for example for the kakapo, probably much less so for the Canada goose. But this treatment would be an exception to the established rule; what do others think? Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 20:31, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

There are about 100 featured bird species articles that do not define the acronym in the intro. And you say it is absolutely necessary. Or do you mean it is OK to do it right at the end of the article? Something that you think is "absolutely necessary" was missed in the FAC process 100 times. Your argument is far beyond reasonable, again. --Ettrig (talk) 20:52, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

My argument is no more unreasonable than yours that we can just ignore the style guide because you don't like it. I could just as easily go around adding it to any of these articles where it's missing, citing the style guide, but that would be no less reckless than you going around mass-removing it.

It seems to me that Aa77zz made a good point that I overlooked on first read through this. If the IUCN (expanded) is only mentioned once or twice in an article then it should be unnecessary to use the initialism at all - it's of no use to readers, and perhaps the style guide needs to be refined on that point. The problem is the infobox, since birds infoboxes typically always have a conservation status section which contains the initialism, linked to IUCN Red List. I propose that the initialism in the infobox can be ignored for the purposes of the style guide, since spelling out the full name of the organization would hopelessly clutter the box, there are many articles which don't reuse the initialism outside the infobox, and the infobox should be supplemental to the article anyway (I don't know if it is even observed by screen readers). I suggest:

1. if an article uses the full name only once or twice, the initialism needn't be included;
2. if an article uses the initialism in the body (but ignoring the infobox) it must be defined on its first use (even if the first use is in the lede section) per ACRO: International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN).

Does this seem reasonable to everyone? Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 21:50, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Yes, this is what I strived for. Thanks! --Ettrig (talk) 18:30, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

I'm fine with this; I don't now see any significant argument (except the "let's follow the style guide" one) against this compromise. RileyBugz^??_???? 02:40, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

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Recruit new editors for your project?

Happy new year! As you may remember, I've been building a tool to help WikiProjects identify and recruit new editors to join and contribute. See my previous post. I've been working it on in the past several months, and collaborated with some WikiProject organizers to make it better. We also wrote a Signpost article to introduce it to the entire Wikipedia community.

Right now, we are ready to make it available to more WikiProjects that need it. If you are interested in trying out our tool, feel free to sign up. Bobo.03 (talk) 19:17, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

src: upload.wikimedia.org

Range map

Could somebody please make a range map for the wood stork? I prefer that it be based off of HBW. RileyBugz^??_???? 23:08, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Whoever does this might also want to use eBird data.Craigthebirder (talk) 16:28, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Source of article : Wikipedia